"Milky" (jordanmielke)
05/20/2014 at 11:30 • Filed to: Firepower, Hellcat, Chrysler, Crossfire
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"Milky" (jordanmielke)
05/20/2014 at 11:30 • Filed to: Firepower, Hellcat, Chrysler, Crossfire | 6
| 20 |
Obviously with updated styling, but I still think the business case for the Firepower is strong. Especially since we all know the Viper plant needs a little help.
Saw this guy last summer and damn its still gorgeous.
Hellcat + viper chassis + luxury = yes.
Also I think Chrysler could really use another car in their lineup. Don't they only have 3 cars right now?
*disclaimer - biased chrysler fanboy
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 11:42 |
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Hell(cat) YEAH!
Chrysler Firepower would be fantastic... but well under $100K
Viper is languishing, though, and I think it might be due to it's higher price.
nafsucof
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 11:49 |
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please please please please please chrysler of london. Please make this so you can be awesome!!! chrysler needs this GT.
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Milky
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
05/20/2014 at 11:49 |
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But more luxury = more money. But no one would complain about a lower price.
CAR_IS_MI
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 11:51 |
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And this too!!!
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Milky
> CAR_IS_MI
05/20/2014 at 11:58 |
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Lol, thats a bit less likely to ever make it to production.
dogisbadob
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 11:58 |
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The Hellcat should be able to make 600 hp from 6.2L without a supercharger. The Viper V10 should be able to make 840 hp from 8.4L
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Milky
> nafsucof
05/20/2014 at 11:59 |
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Agreed, IMO it would really help their image aka give them a halo car.
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CAR_IS_MI
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 12:01 |
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but but but...
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Milky
> dogisbadob
05/20/2014 at 12:06 |
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Yea, I don't want to be that guy but 640hp is a little disappointing. Though the Viper does have a tradition of large HP bumps mid product cycle, I'm hoping for 700hp.
ThatbastardKurtis
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 12:10 |
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But, it makes too much sense to us (enthusiasts) so, it will not be produced. Especially if Fiat cannot have a variant. As they are supposedly developing new RWD chassis...hmmm, maybe this may fit in. But, could be produced at another facility?
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ThatbastardKurtis
> dogisbadob
05/20/2014 at 12:12 |
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the Viper engineers went over that. The Viper is too narrow in the frame rails to have a DOHC V10 engine. Plus, it would be too heavy up top. Think about if for a sec. 8.4 liters. DOHCs, VVT. All that metal up top....
JR1
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 12:31 |
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We would never see it. Fiat would not allow such blasphemy to compete with their beloved prancing horse.
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Milky
> JR1
05/20/2014 at 12:47 |
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You're right but I hate that argument. Please refer to 991 vs R8 vs Huracan/Gallardo and how they all sell well.
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JR1
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 12:50 |
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I agree but different company perhaps different policies.
Axial
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 13:38 |
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No, because FIAT has decreed that Chrysler must become king of econoboxes instead.
Alex from Toronto
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 13:54 |
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How bout they put it in the viper, they would probably sell more.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 17:30 |
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Mostly the price comes into play with the consideration of value, money vs. what you get for it.
Viper is having trouble selling, but it isn't because it doesn't wear the word Dodge anymore. It isn't because it is bad looking, it is arguably the best looking, aside from perhaps being tied with the original 1996 GTS Coupe.
I am not sure if anyone misses the targa/convertible body style or not, but I have a feeling that most of Vipers issue is that it costs more than it's predecessors did, but is still basically the same sledge-hammer it has always been, with a nice shiny new handle.
Paying more for the same thing just pushes people toward less expensive used versions, and costing more than competition like Corvette, and Nissan GT-R, and other high-powered toys, pushes people toward that competition, too.
A Chrysler Firepower would have to compete with Corvette, it would have to under-cut the more powerful Viper, or provide a BIG amenities reason to cost anywhere near the same price, but it would also have to compete with cars like the M-B SL-series, Porsches, Lamborghinis, Audi R8, and others, that aren't necessarily the same technical layout, but are still premium-grade high-powered toy cars, not really luxe-people movers that have more practicality.
If it doesn't hit that price point just right, it will just be a more expensive Crossfire. An interesting car, that hardly anyone considered before it got cancelled, because it wasn't outwardly compelling enough to gain attention for a new, un-established nameplate.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> dogisbadob
05/20/2014 at 17:39 |
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That sort of math doesn't work, because as displacement goes up, it becomes more difficult to attain the same volumetric efficiency.
It is relatively easy to make 100hp/liter from a 2.0 Liter I4/H4, or an even smaller motorcycle engine... they are getting to the point of 150hp/liter in some cases.
But the larger the displacement, the volumetric efficiency curve declines, as the moving parts grow in mass. A reciprocating engine with heavier or more moving parts uses more energy to keep itself spinning, having to accelerate and decelerate the reciprocating mass of the pistons and rods, as well as the additional or larger valve train. Plus more oil and more coolant for increased drag, and in the oil's case, possibly more windage. Plus larger bearing surfaces impart more drag than smaller ones, even considering both would be lubricated.
The idea that the Hellcat engine without forced induction might make anywhere even approaching 100hp/liter in a street-legal, emissions-certified, warrantee-covered package is almost an engineering miracle, similarly GM, Ford, and other large-displacement atmospheric engines. (not force-fed to artificially increase power.)
the high side of 500 horsepower used to be the purview of cars costing a quarter of a million dollars or more, just a decade or two ago. Having that kind of horsepower in a car anywhere near 50 thousand dollars or possibly less... is a NEW thing that has come about in the age of computer modeling and finite-element and fluid dynamics analysis in engine design, not just porting and polishing, and wishing for more power.
Also keep in mind... peak horsepower is NOT the whole picture.
The Viper's V10 may have a flatter torque curve that belies it's lower peak horsepower number, than a similarly atmospheric 6.2 V8. A supercharger makes it an apples-oranges situation.
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Milky
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
05/20/2014 at 17:51 |
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But if it doesn't hit the price point just right and people forget about it just like they did the Crossfire, it will depreciate like crazy and I will happily buy one of those too.
Its a win-win situation. Sells well, great. Sells like crap, really great.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Milky
05/20/2014 at 18:13 |
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The thing is... the accountants and other bean counters try to gauge that stuff before committing R&D dollars, let alone production budgets.... so if it is a significant risk, it seriously hinders the chances of it being produced in the first place.
That is one of the big reasons why there are so few truly interesting cars on the market, and lots and lots of inter-brand clones, and why so many cars from so many different companies look like cookie-cutter cars. Low risk of non-acceptance.